KC and Jamil begin to discuss mental health on university campuses and how to take care of ourselves along with our communities featuring guest Micah Wolf.
Transcript
Hello everyone, welcome back. Now KC, this has been a project of ours
Speaker:for quite some time, and today, we are tackling mental health by popular
Speaker:demand. That's right. And actually, Jamil, before we talk about mental health,
Speaker:I wanna give a shoutout to some of our listeners who are not
Speaker:in the state of Connecticut, they're coming to us from NC State.
Speaker:We heard that folks in Res Life at NC State are using our
Speaker:podcast to generate conversations, and I think maybe even do trainings.
Speaker:Yes, and this is a perfect example of how our content can be
Speaker:used, whether that's in your departmental trainings or to generate conversations,
Speaker:and all your departments, with students, with faculty, with staff, so hopefully,
Speaker:our content is resonating with you all and you are finding it useful.
Speaker:Yeah, and shoutout to our friends at NC State. We love you all.
Speaker:Yeah. And those of you... If there are listeners out there,
Speaker:if you are... You're already using this somehow in your world,
Speaker:share with us. We definitely wanna know how this is showing up for
Speaker:you, and if you're a listener and that didn't occur to you,
Speaker:we invite you to absolutely use this like a... It looks like a podcast
Speaker:version of a book club. All through that.
Speaker:Yes, programming. Programming. So share this. Share with folks who you think
Speaker:could use it. It's a good conversation starter. We'll get the conversation
Speaker:started, you carry it out in your circles, in your world,
Speaker:so anyway, thank you all to NC State,
Speaker:and reach out to us. We wanna hear
Speaker:what you wanna hear about how it's going for you, how people are
Speaker:responding to the podcast. We love it. So on our conversation today,
Speaker:we discuss a lot of things. We have our friends who are coming
Speaker:on from the Counseling Services department at our university, talking about
Speaker:anxiety. Yeah, we talk a lot... Since the... College student mental health
Speaker:has been a problem since before the pandemic, and it's a... People are
Speaker:calling it like the twin pandemic along with the COVID 19 one, and
Speaker:folks really... We're not seeing... Even with vaccines and all that,
Speaker:we're still seeing mental health struggles worsening, we're not seeing those
Speaker:get better as we see the pandemic of COVID 19 getting better,
Speaker:but depression, stress, anxiety, suicidality, all of that stuff
Speaker:is something that's really still deeply impacting students, and
Speaker:if you're part of a university community right now, I'm sure you're seeing
Speaker:that in your classrooms and in your spaces.
Speaker:Yes, and as higher education professionals, that doesn't stop with students,
Speaker:that can often extend to staff and faculty themselves. That's true. So we
Speaker:talk about ways in which anxiety may show up
Speaker:across our community, and how can we work together to combat that,
Speaker:how can we support one another, how can you support your students who
Speaker:may be going through a difficult time during their undergrad or grad process,
Speaker:and we know for students that anxiety, depression and other mental
Speaker:disorders can really hurt a student's ability to show up in the classroom
Speaker:and be successful, and so hopefully, in this episode, we are able to
Speaker:give you some tips and some tricks around how to combat this and
Speaker:really how to be happier in your environment
Speaker:and get the resources that a lot of our universities have.
Speaker:Yes, we love talking with Micah, it was sort of like a mental
Speaker:health session for both of us, he lowered our blood pressure.
Speaker:So anyway, enjoy this conversation with Micah Wolf. Alright, KC, so today,
Speaker:mental health. Mental health today and every day. Micah, thank you for being
Speaker:here with us today. Micah is a graduate student and an intern
Speaker:here at SCSU. He's in Counseling and School Psychology,
Speaker:graduating in August, clinical mental health worker, seeing students on
Speaker:campus as a counselor in therapy sessions, has previously been an academic
Speaker:support coach, and brings with him some really interesting perspectives.
Speaker:So Micah, welcome to real talk. We're glad to have you. Thank you
Speaker:so much. This is very exciting to be here.
Speaker:So I'm thinking we'll start first where... What are some of your experiences
Speaker:you're having with students? What is this looking like?
Speaker:We can start the conversation kind of off there. Great.
Speaker:The experiences I'm having with students suffice to say is wide ranging,
Speaker:and to perhaps sound like I'm embellishing here, but
Speaker:it's awesome. It's all inspiring. There's a lot of struggle, and we'll talk
Speaker:about that surely. And there's also so much growth, insight, sensitivity,
Speaker:talent and strength, and there's just a lot of
Speaker:relationship and aliveness that I'm able to be privy to and kind of
Speaker:help develop with people. I was talking with my students today about this
Speaker:episode that we're recording and really realizing how much has changed in
Speaker:the conversation around mental health since I was in college 20 years ago.
Speaker:I was a mess in a lot of different ways, as... It's like developmentally,
Speaker:a challenging time and also an amazing time
Speaker:for human beings, but I can just see how
Speaker:I just had very little self awareness, the sense of like, "If you're
Speaker:struggling, it's your fault." And that still exists, that kind of
Speaker:stigma, but just the growing conversation, which is why we're doing
Speaker:this episode today, to really continue to expand and normalize conversations
Speaker:around mental health and well being. Yeah, that's really important. And
Speaker:it is really exciting to see in person and on social media the ever
Speaker:increasing awareness of and de stigmatizing of the importance of mental
Speaker:health of whole body health of just, again, the community and relationship.
Speaker:That's a very refreshing way, I think, of viewing this.
Speaker:University can be a very transformative time in one's life. You're... For
Speaker:some folks, you're leaving home for the first time, you're moving in, living
Speaker:on campus, you're immersing yourself in the culture and a new culture,
Speaker:possibly. You're also probably gonna have some new hurdles in your life
Speaker:that you may have not had previous. You may have financial hardships,
Speaker:you may have academic failures, you may have
Speaker:good times and bad times. I used to always talk about my undergrad
Speaker:experience being a roller coaster every day. One day you're up,
Speaker:next day you're down. It's like rolling with the punches.
Speaker:And for some folks, mental health, this may be the first time where
Speaker:they're struggling or even thinking about it. Yeah.
Speaker:And it might be the first time that they're seeing a need
Speaker:to actually reach out due to bad days that seem to go on
Speaker:for longer than we're used to, or just additional... All these things you're
Speaker:mentioning, all these firsts, all these hurdles, they can really add up
Speaker:quickly and we get winded. And it can be embarrassing and take a
Speaker:lot of energy to make an appointment or show up to counseling services,
Speaker:or to even just mention to to a friend, Hey, I'm struggling.
Speaker:Especially if we, speaking of maybe impostor syndrome and things that can
Speaker:be rampant everywhere in many ages, all ages and all people.
Speaker:If we surround ourselves with support, that can feel great. And yet,
Speaker:getting there is not always the easiest or most obvious path.
Speaker:Yes. But I know for some folks that go to our university and
Speaker:that go to other universities, attending said university is the first time
Speaker:they may even have access to counseling. The first time they may have
Speaker:access in their life to services. True. And also, they also may be
Speaker:in a place where they're away from their family and away from cultural
Speaker:stigma. Exactly. Especially for marginalized groups. Folks are not jumping
Speaker:to go to therapy. There's a mistrust there culturally. And so now they're
Speaker:in a place where they have access and maybe even some of that
Speaker:stigma is removed by their peers, by the staff,
Speaker:by the overall community encouraging mental health practices, not just with
Speaker:counseling services, but with the services of the entire university.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. And I think about how student academic success
Speaker:and mental health and well being, those are inseparable. You can't expect
Speaker:a student to be academically successful if they are also
Speaker:unwell. And I just... I talked to my students today and asked them
Speaker:for any thoughts they wanted to share on the podcast. And
Speaker:I wanna read just a couple of these to you.
Speaker:So here's one student. "Even though there's not one particular way a college
Speaker:student is supposed to act or look like,
Speaker:I feel like and look like I'm not supposed to be in college
Speaker:at all." And here's another one. "I would say feeling like an impostor
Speaker:is a familiar feeling, especially in college. There's so many different
Speaker:types of people around you, so you sometimes feel as if you have
Speaker:to act a particular way around different people. I've many times felt like
Speaker:I'm a high school student pretending to be in college. It feels as
Speaker:if everyone else is so far ahead of me, and I'm behind,
Speaker:pretending not to be." And then one more
Speaker:on the same thing. Yeah, this really... The question about...
Speaker:This question about impostor syndrome really resonates with folks. "Most
Speaker:of the places I go, I feel like an impostor since I moved
Speaker:to the United States. Because of my limited English, I feel like an
Speaker:impostor some places I go, and even think I won't ever learn a
Speaker:high level of English." It can be... What I hear in this is
Speaker:the potential for so much loneliness and isolation and
Speaker:difficulty and feeling just what we're trying to, I guess, do today,
Speaker:normalized or a person who isn't alone in their pretending.
Speaker:And when we're faced with feeling alone, it's pretty hard to...
Speaker:What am I saying? To open up or to do anything but kind of dig
Speaker:deeper into this hole away from these winds and
Speaker:the screaming wind that can be bracing. There is too... And I'm thinking
Speaker:particularly about, I guess, 'cause I'm teaching in person this semester,
Speaker:so I'm thinking about that and that as a social opportunity
Speaker:when we are coming together in the same physical space.
Speaker:And also, knowing that here we have a room full of people,
Speaker:everybody's feeling lonely or everybody's feeling a sense of being an impostor,
Speaker:which actually sort of... If we can really
Speaker:break through that and connect with each other,
Speaker:we're actually not impostors if everyone is feeling the exact same way.
Speaker:And what an opportunity... Truly. In terms of
Speaker:dealing with this big societal problem that we have right now about social
Speaker:anxiety, isolation. And like any meaningful opportunity, boy can it be scary,
Speaker:'cause if you're gonna change that, if you're gonna be in a room
Speaker:that's previously a room full of people who are not together,
Speaker:albeit literally, they are together, if you're gonna change that to,
Speaker:Oh, I see you and you see me,
Speaker:that can require a leap of faith, that can require a presence,
Speaker:that can be really uncomfortable in us, especially if it's unusual and uncultivated.
Speaker:Yeah, something I think of is one of the biggest needs for college
Speaker:students is a sense of belonging, and honestly for everyone in the community
Speaker:is a sense of belonging, a sense of connection
Speaker:that you are wanted here, that if you are not here,
Speaker:folks will miss you, they will recognize that you're not there,
Speaker:you feel like you're a part of something larger than yourself.
Speaker:That typically is what keeps people going to the same job every day,
Speaker:going to school every day, that sense of belonging, and it's something as
Speaker:people we all look for and we all thrive with.
Speaker:And imposter syndrome, I think can be unique, especially for folks that
Speaker:are marginalized, and I could think about the first time I felt that
Speaker:feeling. So I was coming to Southern, straight out of Bridgeport from a
Speaker:straight public public education background, I probably wasn't the most
Speaker:academically prepared, and I walked into my first class, I had a philosophy
Speaker:class late at night, and I walked in, I was the only person
Speaker:of color, and everyone's talking and I'm figuring out I'm the only person
Speaker:from Bridgeport, the only person really from urban town. There were all
Speaker:these different towns that I've never even heard of in Connecticut, even
Speaker:though I've lived here my entire life, and everyone already seemed connected.
Speaker:It's almost as if they already knew each other, even though this was
Speaker:a first year class, and so immediately I felt
Speaker:out of place as if, "Oh, maybe I have
Speaker:somehow worked my way into this university, and now everyone's gonna think
Speaker:I'm a fraud because I can't academically perform and maybe
Speaker:my peers know something I don't." Well, guess what? They did not know
Speaker:anything that I did not, I'll tell you that.
Speaker:And some of the ways that I really got around that was taking
Speaker:up space, sitting in the front row and being vocal
Speaker:and being more social and talking more is some of the ways that
Speaker:I was able to outgrow that very quickly,
Speaker:because if I'm not supposed to be here, we're gonna have a great
Speaker:time while we're here at least, is kinda how I was working with
Speaker:it at the time, but I think so many students, especially for
Speaker:students where university don't feel like a home for them, where their parents
Speaker:haven't been there, they're siblings, they have no connection to this experience
Speaker:yet, and they're embarking on this for the first time, may find theirselves
Speaker:in that space, maybe more than once. And like we always point out
Speaker:in this podcast, most students are not like you. This is. So I
Speaker:mean for those... And it's still was something major for you to grapple
Speaker:with, that feeling of not belonging, and yet you were like 100%
Speaker:committed to... You got the most out of this education out of anyone
Speaker:I have ever known, you maxed it out. Do not praise me, yeah. You know
Speaker:it's true. And there are a lot of people who are just
Speaker:more shy, more hesitant, perhaps have less of a support system,
Speaker:a lot about who you are as a person contributed, I think,
Speaker:to your ability to deal with that and then I... So I'm always
Speaker:thinking about, "What about folks who are really just painfully shy and
Speaker:anxious? Or who would never sit in the front row? Or who sort
Speaker:of shut down when they're faced with challenges?"
Speaker:Honestly, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is peer
Speaker:support, and I'm thinking a lot about my first year while I'm sitting
Speaker:here, and I think about my RAs at the time and the people
Speaker:that was on our council, and how they rallied floors and how they
Speaker:rallied people that were shy and included them in things,
Speaker:so when it's time to go sit in the dining hall,
Speaker:when it's time to do a study project, making sure that you're roping
Speaker:in everyone, especially younger students, and I remember my first semester
Speaker:being very much like that, from older students, being roped in and being
Speaker:talked to and being told about, "How does the university work?
Speaker:How does my classes work?" Getting support on that end from my peers,
Speaker:I received a lot of support from my peers, especially my peers of
Speaker:color in the very beginning of my university experience, and I think that
Speaker:really helped me feel a sense of belonging very early on,
Speaker:also joining clubs and orgs was super helpful.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think to Micah's point about how scary that can be
Speaker:to take a leap of faith, that's one. What we know
Speaker:that joining a collaborate organization, doing meaningful work to you, we
Speaker:know that that will make a positive difference in your mental health,
Speaker:and yet it is harder to do than it is to
Speaker:spend time looking at your phone or come home and watch Netflix,
Speaker:that is right there for us, and we think it'll make us feel
Speaker:better and it doesn't in the way that
Speaker:more meaningful connections with people can. Yeah, I think there's not a
Speaker:one solution fix all to anxiety, to depression, to
Speaker:any kind of mental health problem we have going on,
Speaker:it's not like you gotta join a club and all your problems will
Speaker:go away and you will somehow feel magically better overnight. No? I think
Speaker:it's... Yeah, no, I don't think it's that simple,
Speaker:especially depending on what you're going through at this time 'cause I
Speaker:always remember telling students that, "Your life doesn't stop in college,
Speaker:while you're in university, while you're taking classes, your life doesn't
Speaker:stop because the mid terms are happening, crises don't stop, you
Speaker:may have family members die in the middle of mid terms, you may
Speaker:be facing a financial hardship in the middle of mid terms and not
Speaker:be sure how you're gonna pay next semester." I remember having semesters
Speaker:like that. You may be going through all types of things,
Speaker:your first break up, the first time you failed a class and maybe
Speaker:you were a straight A's student in high school, there could be all
Speaker:different kinds of stressors happening, but that's why it's important to
Speaker:meet with folks that I would call your advocates,
Speaker:that can be folks at the counseling services, that can be maybe a
Speaker:faculty member, that can be a peer, like a RA or maybe academic success
Speaker:coach, it could be numerous people. I think students should try to find
Speaker:a sounding board really early and really lean on them
Speaker:and see what kind of guidance they can provide as they
Speaker:rough through the waters. I love that sight or that language,
Speaker:roughing through the waters, because it can feel insurmountable and like
Speaker:you're against so much momentum and cold and alone
Speaker:and painful, to that point about we can be painfully shy and shut
Speaker:down at challenges. I'm thinking of a previous episode
Speaker:where, KC, you were talking about teaching and feeling nervous
Speaker:for not only the first class, but all classes in the semester,
Speaker:and how there's a real physical response there.
Speaker:And until we can really start to help ourselves by finding advocates and
Speaker:methods of means of support, there can be a lot of
Speaker:pain, quite literally. Yeah. And it can often feel like your fault.
Speaker:If this is all new, if people seem like they're
Speaker:doing things easily that take you a long time or a lot of
Speaker:effort to do, there can be a lot of just internalized
Speaker:anger, a lot of just internalized prejudice that we can flip out ourselves
Speaker:and just struggle to see how much we've really done to that impostor
Speaker:syndrome as well to get to this place, to get to college
Speaker:is significant. And to face these questions, it's all so, so much.
Speaker:It's so hard at every turn. Yeah. I think so many folks
Speaker:perceive maybe other students, their peers to be doing so much better than
Speaker:them without realizing that maybe they're having just as hard as a journey.
Speaker:Just because that student seems like they are out there and they're really
Speaker:social and they have their academics and they're networking and all these
Speaker:different things together. And maybe you feel like you're not at that similar
Speaker:place, doesn't necessarily mean that that student feels complete as well.
Speaker:And when you're going through, especially your undergrad,
Speaker:I think it's so important to realize that you're on your own track
Speaker:that cannot be compared to other people's. Your track may take you
Speaker:five, six years to graduate. Your track may take you a gap year.
Speaker:Your track may take you from living on campus to commuting to back
Speaker:on campus. There are so many different ways that your university experience
Speaker:can be unique to you. Maybe you transfered from three different universities
Speaker:previous. There's so many different aspects that go into what makes your
Speaker:experience unique. And when you start comparing it to the success of your
Speaker:peers, you shortchange yourself. And it's so natural. That's how we learn,
Speaker:by observing others. And it just fits, of course.
Speaker:It all plays into that feeling of lost. If others seem to know
Speaker:what they're doing and you're worried about being exposed as a fraud,
Speaker:that's an ongoing struggle. It can be. It truly can be an ongoing
Speaker:struggle. And there's peer support groups all throughout universities across
Speaker:the country. There's different resources, there's different talks online.
Speaker:But honestly, truly, I think it's just something you have to work through
Speaker:every day as part of the battle. And I think as we're battling, as
Speaker:we're waking up and facing that day and that struggle, we might see,
Speaker:after some time, some unexpected changes, progress, just things that we
Speaker:might not have expected, some maybe easiness or some new, not only cognitive
Speaker:insights, but feelings in our body. Levels of acceptance to the hurt and
Speaker:the pain, and new levels of connection and excitement and interest and engagement.
Speaker:And from my experience, university can really shape you, especially when
Speaker:it comes to your mental health. And you can actually grow tremendously without
Speaker:realizing. What I noticed is every semester, when a new semester started,
Speaker:I kinda felt the same, maybe a little different, but the same
Speaker:and my family would tell me, "No, you're so different. You're growing so
Speaker:different." To the point where I didn't have... Never really realized,
Speaker:because I was experiencing it. But you have students that are coming in
Speaker:potentially with past traumas, with baggage, with things they have experienced,
Speaker:coming into this space, having new experiences, but through the support
Speaker:of their community, be able to heal and grow from them and walk
Speaker:out the other side a better person. So there is always an upside
Speaker:to the work you're putting in. Working on your mental health can be
Speaker:a hard job, but it's an extremely important job. You can't be a
Speaker:rock star student, you can't nail that internship without your peace of
Speaker:mind. My mom used to always tell me, "You can't put a price
Speaker:on peace of mind." And I know what she's talking about
Speaker:now. Micah, I wonder, as we wrap our interview up, if...
Speaker:You've been here for a couple years and in a few different roles,
Speaker:and I really appreciate your attention to and focus on the body in
Speaker:these conversations about mental health, 'cause a lot of times...
Speaker:Universities traditionally haven't particularly considered the body. It's
Speaker:about like, "You're a scholar, which is the life of the mind,
Speaker:and your mental health, that's up in your mind."
Speaker:But I wonder how... What you think, whether students,
Speaker:faculty in the classroom, spaces on campus, how can we... What are some
Speaker:things that we can do, depending on where we are, to better support
Speaker:student's body, mind and spirit? And each other. I shouldn't say just students.
Speaker:Everyone. I love that. And I'm gonna kind of
Speaker:fuse that question or my answer to that with what Jamil was just
Speaker:saying about walking through... I'm not sure. Walking through the door,
Speaker:walking to the other side of the experience. We are the people who
Speaker:do have to do the walking, each one of us, in our own
Speaker:journey. And yet, boy, can we not do that alone,
Speaker:and have we only gotten here on the shoulders of those before us.
Speaker:I think it's helpful to remember when I was joining this program that
Speaker:I'm in, the Clinical Mental Health Counseling Track at Southern,
Speaker:previously counseling had been described as empowering a client,
Speaker:and recently it's changed to helping a client empower
Speaker:themself. And there's a small shift there, but it's a pretty critical one
Speaker:in that we need community and support, and
Speaker:we also are the people showing up as well.
Speaker:So how can we be a support to others? I think to maybe
Speaker:be a little obvious, we have to be that support to ourself,
Speaker:get sleep, drink water, learn as you can
Speaker:intuitive approaches to ways to nourish yourself with food and outdoors,
Speaker:and notice with gentle open minded curiosity as much as you can
Speaker:what it's like to look someone in the eyes without expectation,
Speaker:that might be impossible, notice thoughts that accompany such moments, maybe
Speaker:thoughts like, "Oh no, they're staring at me." Or, "Oh, no, they think
Speaker:I'm staring at them." Or, "I look this way, or... "
Speaker:There's always thoughts, and yet there can also be openness, a parallel
Speaker:track in that experience. And in helping people find support or feel support,
Speaker:just to feel seen, there can be assistance in helping ourselves
Speaker:see people in the first place, see ourselves in the first place.
Speaker:Have the space and openness and curiosity and just warmth, just warmth
Speaker:that allows for someone to be seen in the first place.
Speaker:So there's institutional and larger systemic needs to help support and
Speaker:provide equity to institutions of higher learning as well as many other
Speaker:areas, and on this more personal micro level,
Speaker:there can be a lot of adaptation and
Speaker:experimentation and play with just how to be available to a person,
Speaker:including ourself. And even how you're talking about the body, I'm thinking
Speaker:about holistic, like treating your holistic self and not just your mental
Speaker:health. And that could be through many things, maybe getting a fitness program
Speaker:with your university gym and going on the treadmill for an hour a
Speaker:day. It could be making sure you're eating
Speaker:three meals a day. So many students work multiple jobs
Speaker:and they have classes, they have internships, they may be skipping meals
Speaker:to catch up on time and the toll that may take on your
Speaker:mental health. So making sure you're feeding your body so you can feed
Speaker:your mind, making sure you are working on your body so you can
Speaker:feel good about yourself, you can feel clearer, you can have some more
Speaker:peace, maybe even dabbling in meditation or some of the other
Speaker:more practices that your university may offer. There typically tends to
Speaker:be people on campus that puts on yoga events sometimes, or
Speaker:full body scans, which can be very relaxing.
Speaker:There's so many ways to work on your mental health
Speaker:that students may not be thinking about, but can make
Speaker:drastic differences. Oh my gosh, I love what you're saying. There are so
Speaker:many surprisingly small things that can provide drastic differences. I would
Speaker:like to also just, maybe caution is too strong a word,
Speaker:but be in the corner of all of these people listening who might
Speaker:want this promised clarity and peace and find it really hard to get
Speaker:to. Maybe to a place of eating three square meals a day or
Speaker:maybe getting caught up in, "Oh, I should do
Speaker:these things, go outside, exercise, sleep well, reach out to friends,
Speaker:not isolate, I should, I should, I should." Should's can sometimes really
Speaker:bring a lot of expectations and added hardship, and if there's any ability
Speaker:to have any kind of just compassion for the effort that we're putting
Speaker:forward as is, that's awesome. I think living intuitively
Speaker:is a gentle and wise approach, and that doesn't always mean that life
Speaker:is gonna remain gentle, but that approach is, I think often,
Speaker:again, always adapting and holistic kind of approach.
Speaker:Yes, that progress looks unique to one's own self, it does.
Speaker:What one person's doing to improve their mental help will look drastically
Speaker:different from you. But what the major step for you will look completely
Speaker:different from somebody else. It can look very small to someone else,
Speaker:but be a major step in the right direction for you.
Speaker:I think it's all customizing how you want to improve
Speaker:what's happening and taking it day by day, having it on a
Speaker:day by day. Yes. And that piece of having a little bit of
Speaker:space and some compassion for yourself and curiosity,
Speaker:because I think I've been certainly the person who like you can shade yourself
Speaker:to death and just beat up on yourself for not doing the thing
Speaker:you know you're supposed to do, and that can just stop you all together.
Speaker:Exactly. So sometimes whatever it is, drinking enough water, you know, small
Speaker:things, I know that Jamil and I both
Speaker:especially lately, I don't know if I should talk about our personal business,
Speaker:but we've both have had trouble sleeping. And
Speaker:Jamil will say like, "KC, wow, you are stressed." Or, "You're cranky."
Speaker:And if I look at the actual conditions of my life,
Speaker:things are good, things are manageable, things are exciting,
Speaker:and I know that I haven't gotten good sleep for three nights in
Speaker:a row, and that's where that comes from. So if I can address
Speaker:the sleep piece, all of a sudden everything else becomes easier.
Speaker:So it's not necessarily always about adding more. Yes. And I'm not gonna
Speaker:lie, sometimes things just feel better in community. You can't sleep, your
Speaker:friend can't sleep. You didn't sleep nicely. You can't sleep together.
Speaker:Having a person to talk with, to relate to, to deal with your
Speaker:mental health with at the same time, which
Speaker:possibly can be overwhelming, but if it's doable can be really healing for
Speaker:a person and feel like you're not alone.
Speaker:So having a friend on your journey or multiple friends on that journey
Speaker:with you can be a benefit at times.
Speaker:And I think to grow is to shed skin and have raw surfaces
Speaker:and there can be vulnerability and pain and discomfort.
Speaker:And part of the process coming to counseling or just I think as
Speaker:a person is I think learning to distract and heal and self soothe
Speaker:despite these basically guaranteed discomforts and difficulties in life,
Speaker:and we could also ride the wave, so to speak and
Speaker:live into and through these difficulties as well,
Speaker:it's helpful to learn ways to survive them, and
Speaker:it's a place where we can also play and go further than that,
Speaker:and really live as embodied as possible in a world that has a
Speaker:lot of suffering. Self soothe, that's a wonderful way of putting it. That's
Speaker:a really lovely way of putting it, that's very realistic. Micah, just thank
Speaker:you so much for being here with us today. Actually, I literally feel
Speaker:like my blood pressure is lower after spending time with you and I
Speaker:usually... And I can tell, Jamil is like more relaxed too. But we
Speaker:usually sort of recording episodes, it's sort of
Speaker:anxiety producing in a lot of ways, but truly like your presence.
Speaker:I can see that you would be very good at your job,
Speaker:because I can feel that even just from recording this with you,
Speaker:so thank you. Thank you so much for saying that, I love hearing
Speaker:that. And to show you, to self disclose
Speaker:just how typical your experience probably is as soon as we were talking
Speaker:for a moment, and as soon as that record 3,2,1 showed up on
Speaker:the screen, my heart rate increased and my blood pressure increased,
Speaker:I was very aware of that. It's just so human. These are the
Speaker:inevitable things that we're riding and running and moving through and with
Speaker:alongside into. This is lovely. KC, you are right, this feels like the
Speaker:most relaxed episode I have recorded. Yes. Yes. You have the perfect voice
Speaker:for narration, you know? Thank you. It's like an audiobook. Yes,
Speaker:thanks, Micah. So this has been great. You're so welcome. A real honor
Speaker:and privilege and pleasure to be here. Alright, Jamil, so
Speaker:for the ending note for this episode, you haven't actually heard this clip
Speaker:yet, but Madeleine Shaw, who was really the inspiration for this episode
Speaker:and others on mental health, she sent in a clip that I think
Speaker:is a really nice note to end our conversation on today.
Speaker:So you're the one who's gonna hit play, but this is something you're
Speaker:hearing for the first time, her words for us. It is.
Speaker:Well, let's listen. I just wanted to share a message of hope.
Speaker:This message is for everyone listening, when I need to remind myself of
Speaker:this truth, be okay with not being okay,
Speaker:forgive yourself and realize whatever is happening, you will be alright.
Speaker:It's the little mantra I like to tell myself is, I am alright, I
Speaker:am okay. And sometimes I laugh when I say it because it doesn't
Speaker:feel honest or true. However, this feeling of being well
Speaker:and alright may just be a moment. When I'm cooking my favorite meal
Speaker:or finishing my last exam for a semester,
Speaker:and this moment can only last a minute but it's a break in
Speaker:whatever is happening for you. If you collect enough okay moments in your
Speaker:day, you have a good day and a few good days turn to
Speaker:a week, a good week, a few good, those weeks turn into a
Speaker:month. And it's easy to say all these things, right?
Speaker:Easier to say it removed from what's really happening
Speaker:but trust me, when I say I've had the best of times and
Speaker:the worst of times, and I speak from true experience, understanding and
Speaker:knowing. One final thought I wanna share, it's actually a quote I have
Speaker:sticked onto my mirror with a post it,
Speaker:that no matter what happens, the sun will rise in the morning,
Speaker:that's from President Barack Obama, not me. But these words still ring true
Speaker:for me. No matter what happens, how you're feeling what's going on,
Speaker:know that you are not alone, and the sun
Speaker:is faithful and will always rise in the morning.
Speaker:And that is the whole clip. It kinda sounds like she's auditioning
Speaker:for a podcast house. I could just listen to her like a meditation
Speaker:tape, I love it. A tape. Well, I think what she's saying rings true, right?
Speaker:Taking things day by day, focusing on the good over the bad moments
Speaker:of a day, practicing stillness, trying to do things that are within your
Speaker:control. Yeah, I'm often grateful too for the reset of another day,
Speaker:it's like sometimes you just need to go to sleep
Speaker:and another day is another day. Another day is another day. Yeah.
Speaker:Alright, well, to be continued, conversations about mental health.
Speaker:So thank you to Madeleine Shaw, thanks to Micah, thanks always to Jamil,
Speaker:of course. Well, thank you to you as well. But before we go... Yeah, before
Speaker:we go. We did wanna say, if you're at our university or you're
Speaker:at your university, I'm sure there are resources for you. Ours are the
Speaker:counseling services, we're talking the Wellness Center, we're talking
Speaker:the disability resource center, we're talking Dean of students, there are
Speaker:plenty of resources at our university and I suggest looking for them at
Speaker:yours. In addition to that, if you are struggling with mental health,
Speaker:the suicide hotline, the national suicide hotline number is 800 273 8255.
Speaker:Yes, and if you enjoyed this conversation and we hope you did,
Speaker:you can follow us on social media, Instagram @realtalkhighered, also on
Speaker:Twitter. Follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, rate and review, we wanna